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HANG TIME HEADQUARTERS — At least they are still talking, the “they” being both sides of the NBA’s labor dispute.
That 5 p.m. deadline for taking the owners deal passed some four hours into what turned into a 12-hour bargaining session that didn’t produce a deal but spurred the sides to return to the negotiating table today at noon in Manhattan.
How much progress was made last night is also up for debate, as NBA.com’s Steve Aschburner explains in detail with his eyewitness account of the action. More significant progress today would certainly be welcomed by the masses, but we know better than to skip any steps in this process.
The sides are still talking.
We’ll work from there and see where it takes us …
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Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports: After several days of NBA ultimatums and threats, owners and players made significant progress toward a collective bargaining agreement that would end the lockout, league sources told Yahoo! Sports. With the Players Association agreeable to a 50-50 split of revenue, the sides also made progress on three of the five system issues that union officials said needed to be resolved to complete a deal, sources said. The players are determined to keep system issues which allow them freedom to move to luxury-tax teams, among other issues involving the tax and escrow systems. … “We can get there in the next day or two,” one high-ranking league official briefed on the talks said. “But it’s still a volatile process, and egos can still get in the way. …But there’s a lot of reason to be hopeful.” NBA commissioner David Stern had vowed to “reset” the owners’ proposal to a worse offer if a deal wasn’t reached by 5 p.m. ET Wednesday, but the deadline passed early in the negotiating session without action. “The clock is stopped,” Stern said after the talks ended at 1 a.m. ET Thursday. “And we’re trying to see if there’s a reason why we can get something to go back to our respective sides with.” Stern has some ability to negotiate through the deal points of the system issues, but he also has a group of owners largely split over how much they need to cede to the players on system issues. The owners have watched the union give back in unprecedented ways, and there’s a significant faction that thinks Stern can get a deal done without yielding much more to the players. If the talks break down in the next 24-48 hours, agents are prepared to move rapidly toward decertification of the union or a variation of it, disclaimer of interest.
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Ken Berger of CBSSports.com: Though union officials disputed the media’s characterization of their economic stance, it was clear after Tuesday’s players’ meeting that the players were open to coming down from their previous offer in which they’d proposed receiving a 51 percent share of basketball-related income (BRI). Union president Derek Fisher had made clear that, in return for that willingness to negotiate further on the economics, it was expected that the league relax its position on several system-related deal points — chiefly dealing with additional penalties for repeat offenders above the luxury tax, a prohibition of sign-and-trade transactions for tax teams, and the size, length and frequency of mid-level signings for tax teams. But despite another dose of optimism in the agent and front-office community that the two sides were moving closer to a deal Wednesday, Fisher said there was “not as much (flexibility) as we’d like” from league negotiators on the system issues. ”Obviously, we’d have a deal done if the right flexibility was being shown,” Fisher said. The bargaining session was arranged by Hunter and Stern after the players stared down the league’s threat to replace its 50-50 offer with a 53-47 split in favor of the owners by 5 p.m. Wednesday. … Stern said the league did not revert to that proposal Wednesday, but that it would happen whenever the current negotiating session came to an end if there was no deal. ”We weren’t, in the middle of discussions, going to say, ‘OK, we shouldn’t have taken that break. Stop the clock, it’s all over,’” Stern said. “We’re trying to demonstrate our good faith and I think that the union is trying to demonstrate its good faith.” But the league’s position Wednesday on the system elements the players have said they need in order to justify a 50-50 economic split — which would shift $3 billion to the owners over 10 years and account for all $300 million in the league’s stated annual losses — was not one that signified a give-and-take approach. “They don’t want to give,” a person briefed on the talks said. “They just want to take.”
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Marc Stein of ESPN.com: The fact that the sides continued to trade proposals behind closed doors well past the deadline Stern issued Sunday prompted players, team executives and agents all over the NBA — as seen on more than one occasion last month — to think that a tentative agreement was near. Stern and Fisher, however, have assured their constituents that the league will relax some of the proposed restrictions against tax teams, such as its determination to forbid taxpayers from participating in sign-and-trade deals and having access to the full mid-level exception. So they’re under pressure to deliver and secure a few concessions with the union dropping to a 50/50 split after players earned 57 percent of BRI in the final year of the previous labor deal. Stern, meanwhile, has to contend with a group of small-market owners — led by Charlotte’s Michael Jordan — that doesn’t even want to offer 50/50. ESPN.com reported Tuesday that player reps were informed during Tuesday’s union meeting in New York that the league currently expects just 17 teams (including the league-owned New Orleans Hornets) to approve the deal as constituted, with 13 teams opposing. It takes only a simple majority (16 teams to 14) to approve a new labor deal, but Stern has maintained all summer that he prefers a stronger majority than that to seal the deal. Said [union executive director Billy] Hunter: “There are so many issues that haven’t been resolved.” Should talks collapse again this week, sources say that players and agents at the forefront of a drive to dissolve the union through decertification will be ready to move forward with plans to file a petition with the National Labor Relations Board calling for a decertification vote.
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Mark Murphy of the Boston Herald: As both sides in this labor struggle remained sequestered well past last night’s NBA-imposed 5 p.m. deadline, Glen Davis struggled to maintain his optimism. The Celtics forward certainly picked a strange offseason to become an unrestricted free agent for the first time — in the midst of a league-imposed lockout. That might be one reason why Davis, like many of those players who fall in the bottom 50 percent of the league’s wage scale, wants to get a deal done now. Davis already has made his position clear. He tweeted last week, out of desperation, that the players should move to accept a 51-49 percent split of basketball related revenue (BRI), and end the process. He feels the same way now about hammering out a 50-50 split, the best offer ownership is likely to put on the table. “Yeah, that (tweet) was true for how I felt,” he said. “I want to play, but at the same time I want us all to be on the right track. I want something that is going to be fair for both the owners and the players. We should get what we’re worth, but we should also get back to playing. “Hopefully we can work on this together. We have to see the fans’ side of it, too.” As a result, Davis is anxious to exercise his union right to vote. And he hopes that opportunity comes soon. If it were up to him, the union would accept ownership’s offer. “I hope so,” Davis said. “At the end of the day the (players’ representatives) don’t make decisions for the majority of the players.” Though no longer officially on the team roster, Davis’ source of information remains Paul Pierce, the Celtics’ player representative. Though Pierce was the main speaker during a players-only conference call last week that featured an aggressive debate about decertification of the union, he hasn’t attempted to sell that idea to teammates. “Paul has e-mailed me. He called once,” said Davis, sounding disturbed that Pierce has not been in more frequent contact. “He doesn’t advise me on any of this. That’s what my agent does. He’s Paul Pierce. He doesn’t have to talk to me. “But what (Pierce) basically says is to be prepared for anything. This is something the league has to go through, and we have to wait for things to work out. But he hasn’t talked to me about (decertification). He just talks to me about being ready.” As in ready for the worst scenario.
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Bob Finnan of the News-Herald: Baron Davis is starting to get the itch. His body knows it’s time he should be playing games. The Cavaliers point guard said he’s definitely ready to play. ”You’ve definitely got the itch,” Davis said Wednesday at the Rock and Rock Hall of Fame and Museum. “I’m starting to get jittery with all this extra energy.” Davis said he’s usually looks at the bright side of things. He said he thinks the NBA lockout will end soon. ”I’m always optimistic,” he said. “I’m an optimistic person. I know both sides are working hard, but I know that the players and the union are working extremely hard to get what’s fair. ”I don’t think that’s always translated in the public. It’s frustrating when you’re always leading with your best foot and you still get a lot of backlash and people make comments to you on the street.” Davis, acquired by the Cavs last February from the Los Angeles Clippers, said he’s attended two of the bargaining sessions in support of the National Basketball Players Association. ”At this point I’m just sitting, waiting, listening and trying to understand it all so you can grasp it and make an educated evaluation,” he said. ”It’s a little frustrating to know that we are putting our best foot forward to do something and get back to work. I just hope that’s met with integrity and with the right sense of negotiation and fairness.” … Davis said the Cavs players never organized any workouts over the summer. He said he’s agreed to play in a charity all-star game in Los Angeles and hopes to arrange one in Cleveland, too. ”I was with (Cavs center Anderson Varejao on Tuesday),” he said. “We’ll get together, probably even do some type of charity game here in Cleveland for the fans.”
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Ira Winderman of the Sun-Sentinel: The NBA lockout is real. So is amnesty. And for Mike Miller so is rehab from a pair of offseason surgeries. So, yes, that is Miller’s Hillsboro Shores estate that recently was placed on the market for $9 million. And no, the Miami Heat forward is not looking to move. Or at least is hoping there is no need. The veteran forward said Wednesday he is just taking stock of the current situation in both his career and the NBA. And that means taking stock of his 9,968-square-foot estate with the $180,000 in annual property taxes. ”It’s a couple of things,” Miller said. “Just preparing myself; never know what can happen.” Among the expected provisions in the post-lockout NBA is an amnesty clause that would allow each team to remove one contract from its salary-cap and luxury-tax obligations, with that player still receiving his full salary upon his release. Beyond the Big Three of LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh, Miller has the Heat’s highest salary for the coming season, at $5.4 million, with three additional seasons on his deal. Oh, and he’s also coming off offseason thumb and shoulder surgeries. ”My thumbs aren’t causing any problems,” he said, with his right thumb injured at the start of last season and his left at the end. “Every once in a while, when I go to play I haven’t been able to do the things I wanted to do as far as wrapping them up with the training staff, that’s what’s made it a little more difficult. And I started to lift two months ago after they cleared my shoulder. I finally got to lift again for the first time in a couple of years the way I really wanted to.”
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Sam Amico of Foxsports.com: While neither side wanted to say as much, several sources close to the talks insist a deal is very much within reach. Or to steal a more stimulating expression from union executive Billy Hunter, within “striking distance.” This time, however, it seems the hype and catchphrases were purposely undersold by everyone involved. That way, nobody gets too disappointed if there’s another letdown. After all, Hunter made his major pronouncement nearly two weeks ago. A week after that Stern gave an ultimatum, telling the players to accept the owners’ latest offer, or else. But the drop-dead deadline (supposedly 5 p.m. EST on Wednesday) came and went, too. So can somebody please explain? ”We’ve got lots of things to talk about,” Stern said. “But I don’t want to talk about our current state of mind or where exactly we are.” Actually, the commissioner doesn’t really need to talk about it — because figuring out where things are now really isn’t all that difficult. According to some in the know, there would be no agreement to take a break and meet again if real movement wasn’t made. Instead, Stern could have just followed through on his threat and dropped the hammer. Still, all we can say for certain is the owners and players want a deal. And they will talk again Thursday in search of a breakthrough. Can it happen? Guess it depends on whom you believe. Right now, no one seems like a pretty good choice. Then again, so does everyone. Just depends on whether you want to be pessimistic or optimistic, or none of the above.
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Henry Abbott of ESPN.com: Last weekend, the NBA sent the union a letter swearing that at the stroke of 5 p.m. ET Wednesday, the owners’ offer would revert to 47 percent and a hard cap. To the extent that was sincere, it was unlikely to be permanent. And, of course, the NBA has entirely abandoned that promise, even on a day when, in Stern’s words, “Nothing was worked out.” Makes you wonder how serious that threat ever was. ”It was our understanding going in,” the commissioner said by way of explanation, “that at the end of the negotiating session, whether it ends today or it ends tomorrow, that’s when our offer reverts [to 47 percent].” The NBA’s commitment to 47, however, is much like the players’ commitment to 53. Temporary, political, a delusion. Even if there is no deal Thursday or Friday, there will be more bargaining so long as a shortened season is possible. The two sides are too close to a deal, and a lost season is too costly. It makes no sense to mess things up like that at this point. And despite yet another deflated set of news conferences, there’s plenty of reason for hope, which Stern knows. As he left the news conference early Thursday morning, after 12 hours of bargaining, Stern stopped in the crowded hallway to converse with union economist Kevin Murphy, who says he is trying to arrange his schedule to be here for the next session to start at noon. Stern encouraged Murphy to show up, saying, “It will be a good day to be here.” It was late. Stern was tired. The comment was vague. It didn’t sound like a real promise of a deal. But it certainly didn’t sound like a guy preparing to blow apart the talks with a dramatically lower offer, either.
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if they dont get a deal done by this time its over for the NBA this is the last chance!!!
Boo! Do something! Either end the lockout or end the season. I’m tired of “positive signs”.
I read the Sports Iiustrated’s article on NBA.com and i heard Reggie Miller. I hope the owners back down in some system issues in order to reach the deal. As Reggiie said, their problem will be solved by hiring smart general managers on their teams.
I don’t think that you can pin it all on the general managers. Miami sucked before Lebron came along. I guess you could give the general manager credit for letting Miami suck enough to be able to afford Lebron, but Wade brought James to Miami, not the general manager. I would blame the general manager of the Bulls for signing Boozer, but I have to cut him some slack, cause Boozer was probably the best free agent left. I think that Reggie Miller should be a general manger for little while, then tell us how smart the other guys are. I think that the aim of the system changes is to give general managers a more even playing field (it will never be completely even). Then, hopefully, the skill of the general manager will have more of an impact on a teams success.
I talk to my rottweiler sometimes too but he doesn’t understand what I’m saying or, if he does, he chooses to disobey or ignore my conversation. The players are just looking at this as if it is a negotiation on buying a yacht or a mansion. Owner starts at one price, purchaser tries to lowball, owner comes back at different price, they settle in the middle, yada yada yada. The owners are not “negotiating” … they are saying “the NBA can’t function under the present system anymore and we have to change it” . The players aren’t hearing it though. Owners say “Need to lower all of our expenses”, players hear “woof, woof-woof, woof”. I think the owners need to nuke the entire season, then present their offer after everyone has had time to reflect on losing a years pay.
Reggie Miller hit it on the head: “You look at a lot of these other small markets and it’s almost like the owners are trying to protect themselves from themselves with this deal.” Smart management is infinitely more important than being able to spend more than another team. Look at the salary rankings of them playoff teams from last season. Many of the teams had the smallest payrolls in the league.
But what was the salary ranking of the teams that made it to the finals? I don’t think too many teams hope for a first or second round exit from the playoffs.
Dallas had the 3rd highest payroll and the Heat’s payroll was #21.
Other playoff teams’ salary ranks of note:
New York Knicks: 26
Chicago Bulls: 28
Oklahoma City: 24
Therein lies the problem of small market owners having to pay more to get big names to come play there…and the Heat are irrelevant it had nothing to do with the GM getting Lebron and Bosh there, that was 100% Wade, both who basically took pay cuts from what they could have gotten to stay in their smaller markets and then had the rest of their payroll filled with rookies and exceptions
Another thing to note OKC is young and rebuilding from the mess that was the Seattle Supersonics, fortunate enough to get Durant, who isn’t the type of player to whine about getting paid more, just loves the game
Knicks, Bulls, and Heat are all also in the top 10 for 2011-2012 payrolls because their free agent signings last year included backloaded contracts, keeping the salary ranks you mentioned way lower than their actual value
No season so cavs get first and fourth pick again next year!!!!!!!!!!!
Lets hope both the sides agree on something and the season starts soon. I am desperate 4 sum dunks and ball, even though i have football, soccer and leafs and bruins game to watch.
END THE LOCKOUT!!!
Reggie is right. Teams do need to make better decisions on signing players. MJ, however, is just too competitive to keep his mouth shut. When he played for the bulls he talked trash to the Wizards. When he played for the Wizards he talked trash to the bulls. But he does need to consider how his actions could affect his Jordan brand and the players that wear them for the sake of his business!
It’s so easy to point fingers. How long has Reggie been GM?
Why not say – if only the players could play the kind of ball they are paid for?
lets play basketball
We cannot point fingers at anyone. Economic situation in county is bad and there is no money to invest. I’ll keep my fingers crossed for the best basketball league.
Rockets are going to win it all if the season starts
It is right on the part of the owners to get a 50-50 share at this time, because of the economy. But, it is ridiculous on their part to think that a hard cap will solve everything.
It will actually make the quality of basketball poor IMO.
Unlike NFL, NBA is all about having 1 star in the team and there aren’t many great players at any 1 pt in the league.
Cleveland with Lebron and a bunch of average joes were a title contender.
Bulls got D-Rose as the first pick and they became a playoff contender at that moment.
Miami with D-Wade and a bunch of tito jacksons was a regular 4-5 seed in ECF.
OKC with Durant.
So my point is, NBA is not going to have an equitable league by introducing a hard cap, since in the NBA the major star is on the court for more than 40 minutes of a 48 minute game, unlike NFL where offense, defense and special teams share the time and will have to be good to be successful.
All the system issues that restrict player movement will make the game stale.
There has to be some punitive measures better than what was in their before to prevent Dallas or LA or Knicks or Bulls from spending almost double than say San Antonio.
But, any system that has a hard cap in NBA is bound to restrict player movement and their freedom of choice. Thats not capitalism or free market economics.
College basketball starts 11/11/11! so no matter what happens in the nba or nfl I’ll always have old reliable NCAA
Michael Jordan should be ashamed of himself, asking the players to concede to something he refused to do when he was a player. The reason he is a owner today is because of where he was previously. The players are making the owners wealthy.
Danny, I agree with you that hard cap will solve anything. Players can play good basketball only if they are satisfied! Restrict player movement will make those players unhappier and that is more important than money (they play basketball because they like to do and money is reward for doing that job better than others).
Back to work ,workers!!!!
I am honestly at the point where I could care less if this gets done or not…. Both sides deserve to lose a seasons worth of money. Its never been about Millionaires vs Billionaires in my eyes its just been filthy rich people squaring off in a pi**ing contest. I could see it when there was a 10% difference that totaled 400ish million dollars(although it was still ridiculous). That was addressed and now they are fighting over 80-100 million dollars a year?? I’m lost.. there are 40+ players in the league right now who are contracts they earn them that amount of money or more over the lifetime of the contract.
Players: you keep saying youre looking out for the little guys in all of this… look at having your own revenue sharing to look out for the little guys then. Do you think Wade or Kobe would miss 100K? Bet the 3 lowest paid guys that compete against them everyday could use the extra 33K though. Take care of your own, your payroll totals 2 billion for 400 people do the math.
Owners: You are supposed to be savvy businessmen/women. Act like it, if your investment isn’t making you enough money tweak it, make better management decisions don’t haggle over the 3.3 (100M / 30 =3.334) million dollars a year that this lockout is coming down to for each team. Ridiculous, half these people spend more on entertainment each year then that amount. Grow up… when a business is losing money a sure fire way to make sure it KOs is to pi$$ off your employees. You just have the added bonus of said employees being the actual business. Oh and if that doesn’t work Mark Cuban would Probably out of pocket the 3.3 to any owner stupid enough to lose money so this thing will end.
Which side is going to take the first step to not being a greedy dbag? That’s the only question I want answered… don’t plan on watching the NBA for awhile after this and I bought my kids College Jerseys for xmas this year..the ball is better anyway.
Man , I pray they reach an agreement soon I need something to aspire to after college (god-willing the NBA). Being an architect your WHOLE life just sounds boring :/ …
Go Browns!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
when both sides finally agree to their split of millions upon millions of dollars, I wonder how much the prices of NBA tickets, merchandise, concessions at stadiums and all the other crap that fans typically spend money on will go up to make up all the money they have lost due to the cancelled games this season. One way or another we are going to pay for this. I think the fans are owed something too…because without us they do not exist.
woohoo! my team is currently winning, but only by a small margin…this is good entertainment as any. maybe david stern should’ve done business to televise the bargaining sessions. im sure lots of people, even non basketball fans will watch the negotiations drama….hahaha…. good thing there are blog reports about this…
let them squabble more, til they empty their pockets….hahaha
david aldridge, in the 1st video, looks sleepy as always… he’s bored by what he is reporting…hahaha
I hope this gets solved soon. There’s been enough talk already.