Update: Frustration and sadness …

— For live updates, follow: @daldridgetnt | @AschNBA

UPDATE, 2 a.m. ET: And so, after another long day of back-and-forth, NBA owners and players came out of their latest negotiating session early Sunday morning feeling — in the words of both National Basketball Players Association president Derek Fisher and NBA commissioner David Stern — sad and frustrated.

For the rest of us, another game-shattering week awaits, with a Wednesday deadline for the players’ union to accept the NBA’s proposal or deal with a much worse offer on Thursday.

Bottom line: The entire 2011-12 NBA season still remains in jeopardy.

“We’re at a loss for reasons,” Fisher said, “why we could not close this out.”

According to Fisher, during 8 1/2 hours of talks Saturday, the players moved closer to the owners in the ever-important issue of basketball-related income, while standing firm on some of the other “system” sticking points such as luxury taxes and mid-level exceptions to the salary cap.

The owners, according to Fisher, countered with both system proposals that the players object to as too restrictive and a BRI split that, by the players’ view, is still a 50-50 split, some 12 percent lower than what the players had in their last collective bargaining agreement.

As always in these talks, each side painted the proceedings differently. Stern said the owners adopted five of the six proposals that federal mediator George Cohen offered in the meetings. Fisher said there was no formal proposal by the mediator, and that Cohen was simply trying to find a middle ground in an informal manner.

Whatever, the players soon will have a formal proposal, and owners will want an answer on it by close of business Wednesday.

Fisher said he doesn’t anticipate taking any formal proposal to the union rank-and-file for a vote, a fact that might make the owners’ formal proposal moot.

“We made the moves that we needed to make to get the deal done on the economics …  It just doesn’t seem to be good enough for this particular group of team owners,” Fisher said.

Which means, still, it’s not good for anyone.


UPDATE, 1:42 a.m.: Said Derek Fisher, the Los Angeles Lakers guard and president of the National Basketball Players Association:

“We’ve been given the ultimatum, and our answer is, ‘That’s not acceptable to us …'”

And: “We just did not get the sense that they [owners] wanted to close this out tonight.”

Asked if he would take the owners’ proposal to the players for a vote: “There’s not a deal presented that we can take a vote on.”

And, on the split of basketball-related income presented by the owners: “There’d be no way in the world we’d ever get to 51 percent.”


UPDATE, 1:30 a.m.: The split of basketball-related income, at the heart of the talks between NBA players and owners, would not rise much above a 50-50 share in the owners’ latest proposal, probably one of the biggest reasons the union rejected it Saturday night.

Commissioner David Stern said that the players could get close to 51 percent under the proposal if revenues exceed a certain projection. But they also could drop to 49, if revenues fall below projections.

The players are coming up …


UPDATE, 2 a.m. ET (1 a.m. after clock change): Commissioner David Stern said in a hasty news conference that the league has given the players a deadline of Wednesday, at the close of business, to accept a new proposal that, notably, offers a split of revenue that will give the players between 49 and 51 percent, with a chance for the players to make more if the league beats certain revenue forecasts (or drops to 49 percent if the revenue falls short of forecasts).

The offer, brokered by federal mediator George Cohen, was not well-received by the players, according to Stern.  It was initially rejected by the National Basketball Players Association’s main negotiator, Jeffrey Kessler.

“I think, certainly, Billy [Hunter, the NBPA’s executive director] and I, share both a frustration and sadness,” a tired-looking Stern said.

Stern said if the offer is not accepted by Wednesday, owners will withdraw that proposal for one that offers the players just 47 percent of basketball revenue and includes elements of a “flex cap” on salaries.

The players will be up soon for their news conference …


UPDATE, 1:40 a.m. ET: Talks have ended for the night. Early word is, no deal yet. Waiting to see if the two sides will continue talks on Sunday or in the near future.

Will update soon …


UPDATE, 1:10 a.m. ET: Now eight hours into the latest negotiating session between NBA players and owners,  it’s eerily quiet on the news front.

Reporters staking out the meeting at a Manhattan hotel have not been able to crack the cone of silence that has enveloped today’s meeting. Some unconfirmed comments have been tweeted — Michael Lee of the Washington Post tweets that a source said the the sides are “very close” — but nothing has been confirmed, or even close to it.

The meeting already has turned into one of the longer ones of the four-plus month lockout.

For a look on how we got into this, check out our labor timeline.


UPDATE, midnight ET: The two sides in the NBA’s ongoing labor dispute are still talking. No word, official or otherwise, on what has transpired in the seven hours the two sides have met this evening.

The owners, who locked out the players on July 1 when the last collective bargaining agreement expired, met for hours this morning before huddling with players. The discussions in both meetings are aimed at ending the impasse that, according to commissioner David Stern, already has cost the league and its players hundreds of millions of dollars in lost revenue.

The league has canceled game throughout the month of November. If the two sides don’t agree to something soon, the high-profile Christmas Day games on national television may be the next big casualty of the lockout.


UPDATE, 11 p.m. ET: Six hours into the latest crucial negotiating session in the NBA’s labor impasse, representatives for the owners and players are still holed up in a Manhattan hotel, with no word on the progress — or lack — of the talks.

Various reports from the meeting, which is being staked out by several reporters, offer second-hand accounts of “progress.” But nothing has been made public yet.

Given the pre-meeting hype —  including reports that the owners could increase their demand for more basketball-related income and the players might consider de-certifying the union in what commissioner David Stern has called the “nuclear option” — six hours of talks might seem encouraging for those fans who want to see the NBA get back on track.

But in the fifth month of the owner-imposed lockout, one thing has become crystal-clear in the muddied waters of these billion-dollar negotiations:  So far, these meetings have meant little, with starts and stops and rhetoric so heavy at times that we don’t know what to believe.

And until we have a handshake agreement, there’s no reason for anyone to get too worked up. One way or the other.


UPDATE 9:52 p.m. ET: After almost five hours, not much has changed. Federal mediator George H. Cohen left the hotel for a dinner break but was expected to return. A source told tweeter Ken Berger of CBSSports.com that the session has consisted of, “Just a lot of talk so far.” Better to be talking than stalking out.


UPDATE 7:55 p.m. ET: Despite speculation early in the day – brought on by the apparent hardening of positions and the appearance of hardline owners — that the bargaining session today would be brief, the media contingent staking out the labor talks has finagled a TV for college football viewing and pizza to stave off hunger pangs. The session has lasted about three hours now, and NBA.com’s Steve Aschburner jokes that he hopes labor reporters aren’t watching Meet the Press on Sunday morning, as they continue to wait.

The stakeout room


UPDATE 6:38 p.m. ET: During the first 90 minutes of talks, the two sides have met separately and together, according to the sources of tweeter Ken Berger of CBSSports.com. That strategy of facilitating communications is the style of federal mediator George H. Cohen.


UPDATE 5:35 p.m. ET: Our man on the scene Steve Aschburner and TNT Analyst David Aldridge report that, in addition to the usual Labor Relations Committee for the owners, Paul Allen, Michael Jordan and Mickey Arison are participating in the talks. For the players, Chauncey Billups is among the notable participants who are not members of the union’s Executive Committee. Federal mediator George H. Cohen met with each group before beginning the collective bargaining session.


UPDATE 5 p.m. ET: Talks are finally under way (an hour late) as players and owners attempt to bridge a gap that threatens to become even wider.  Owners, after meeting privately for about five hours this morning (10 a.m. to 3 p.m.), could be taking an even harder line. At the last bargaining session more than a week ago, union executive Billy Hunter walked out after the owners would not agree to give the players 52 percent of basketball-related revenue. Under the last collective bargaining agreement, the players’ share was 57 percent. All of the teams were believed to be represented at the owners meeting. Commissioner David Stern and Michael Jordan, the hardline owner of the Charlotte Bobcats, were seen entering the hotel separately.


3:12  p.m. ET: The most important bargaining session yet in the ongoing labor strife is set to begin at 4 p.m. today in a Manhattan hotel. Without movement by the two sides this weekend, it’s likely there will be no basketball in 2011 and the entire 2011-12 NBA season could be in jeopardy. Positions on both sides are starting to harden. Many owners, who met among themselves this morning at 10 a.m., are expected to push to have the 50-50 split offer for basketball-related revenue taken off the table if the players refuse to accept it. Ken Berger of CBSSports.com tweets that he’s heard that owners raised new questions about system issues, even those supposedly already agreed to. On the players side, some union members are talking decertification of the players association if the owners can’t meet their desire for 52 percent of BRI. Players also refuse to accept system issues such as contract structuring and limitations that would be like a hard salary cap. Decertification would allow the players to sue on antitrust grounds, meaning the season likely would be lost. Meanwhile, the $4 billion BRI pie already has shrunk with the cancellation of all the games scheduled for November. One ray of hope: Federal mediator George H. Cohen rejoins the collective bargaining, which could bring a calming influence. For a look at how we arrived at this point, check out NBA.com’s labor timeline, and get the whole picture at Labor Central.


  1. Kyle Pham says:


  2. ben ames says:

    both the players and owners already get paid enough just like all athlethes now we the fans have to suffer for it yet again, another lockout,surprise,surprise more greed. take the 50/50 and start the season im a basketball fan but with this stupid lockout crap going on if the season doesnt happen i dont think i could ever be a fan of the nba again,this crap is a big waste of time, when it could get done simply without greediness

  3. Jessie Koenig says:

    Us fans should boycott the NBA for a season!!! Let them sit and think about what BIG BABIES they are.And what they had. We control the NBA by whether we go to games or buy there stuff.SO DON”T!!! BOYCOTT THE NBA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  4. Matt Terry says:

    As I understand it, the ‘decertification’ thing is not as described in the article, but mainly is just to dissolve the player’s union. There are a lot of players who disagree with Derrick Fisher and just want to play. They don’t want any part of the player’s union that is keeping them from playing basketball.

    The players involved in these negotiations need to quit being greedy and listen to the voices of all the players. How about letting the players VOTE. I’ll bet you the issues would be resolved today and we could finally watch basketball.

  5. Voice of Reason says:

    How about you guys just fc..king cancel the entire season already and call it a fc..cking day ?
    May be if you do that then we ll stop coming to this stupid web site to see if you all greedy bastards have finally found a comom ground.

    NBA where greediness happens !
    Greedy bastards, jus fc..cking cancel this POS already !!!!

  6. Unlipops says:

    Let the NBA begin!

  7. Silvana says:

    Sick of people saying “owners OWN the nba, they are the ones that should be getting the big bucks” and “no business has its workers making more than the owners”

    …Maybe this is the problem in this society’s current economic state, why should owners have the privilege of earning more money than the workers (players) whose backs the nba rides on? Without the players there would be no NBA. So owners get the right to earn more money simply because they have the money to be owners whereas the players who have the talent and do the hard work don’t have that right?

    owners: right to profit because they have money to own
    players: right to profit because they are talented and work hard

    What makes more sense?

  8. Shakenbake says:

    Where NBA Cares

  9. R.Cann says:

    Are most players forgetting their roots and who they were before joining the most profitable sport in the world? They are reacting and making absurd statements as if the NBA is trying to abuse and exploit them all.
    What players have at risk; money; how much? Will they lose anything of what they already made and have with the new NBA proposals?
    There are no doubts that this absurd situation was created and is being manipulated by dark and greedy business minds from the players’ side, which are not related to sports and neither to the players’ individual interests.
    Did any NBA players was a millionaire before getting into the NBA? NO!!!
    Were all owners multimillionaires before getting into the NBA and before NBA players entered the league? YES
    Should players be at less respectful and somehow thankful to their owners and the league? I would say YES
    Every player should invest just a minute to look back at their past and compare it to what they are today and achieved. It wouldn’t cost anything.
    Most of them are hard working individuals and great athletes who deserve what they have, but all of them should realize if they would be enjoying the success and financial situation they have today without the NBA and rich a powerful owners?
    Money could provide a lot of things, even happiness and power, but will never change our roots and past. PLAYERS ARE WRONG.

  10. NBA is DEAd says:

    Its not just the players…. Its both sides! Suck it up just like the rest of us….

  11. ban says:

    stretch the wnba for a full 82-game season, and switch the nba for the summer, if there ever will be one.. if not, just blow it all up.

  12. AZ says:

    Yo, players should take the 50/50 and move on with life…this is getting ridiculous. At the end of the day basketball and the fans are the losers here

  13. Biggest NBA Fan says:

    Almost everyone in this country has been affected by the recession. Players need to face the reality and understand they are not special.

  14. NBA is DEAd says:

    Everyone is stupid! Just cancel the whole season so both sides feel the pain of what average people are feeling. People are losing homes and their crying about millions.

  15. MajesticAB says:

    These player are greedy. People are dying of hunger, and they may not be able to buy a maserati. They are ridiculous.

  16. Anthony says:

    Fans are sick and tired about NBA
    So if u want the fans to bought ur thing end the lockout
    or no season and no playoff

  17. Anthony says:

    Fans are getting mad
    I want basketball so stop cry and make a deal
    so we can watch the teams play a basketball game
    U will lost money for the fans

  18. LOCKOUT says:

    Fixed 52 percent with a clause “ACCEPT IT OWNERS”.

  19. OzHeatFan says:

    The owners are the cause for the lock-out. The average NBA player has a small window of time at peak performance to make $ in basketball, then they must go make a regular living like the rest of us. Most owners are already rich enough to give half their money and business away and still be billionaires. They will continue to make exhorbitant amounts of money long after the LBJ’s & D Roses are retired.
    That is providing they make SOUND business decisions… NOT like the ones they made buying a business as volatile as a basketball team. Where the signing of players and the harmony between players-coaches-management is the connection to the fans/public and their paying $ that makes an organisation succesful.
    Basketball is a business just like any other.. make good business decisions and the business will prosper. If you are the employee of a company, no matter what level.. .you want the $$$, If your boss is stupid enough to employ you on more money than you are worth.. is that your fault??

  20. Timmy says:

    The NBA players are pathetic.

  21. benjie paras says:

    i just watch PBA. if NBA no more..

  22. ao1 says:

    NBA said they care for their fans too… Well, if owners and players really do care then get this deal done. Can’t do it? I guess because both are not satisfied with any of those offer which is only for THEMSELVES!!! Oh the aroma of selfishness and greediness are just lingering around.

    I don’t even think owners and players are considering fans opinion. NBA fans around the world are losing interest about this NBA sports as we know… I really wish 75% to 80% of those fans will absolutely not participate, watch or buy any NBA stuffs. I’m DONE!

  23. Young says:

    We, the fans should just boycott NBA for the next two years. Seriously, I am a loyal fans for years, used to save my lunch money to purchase their stupid jersey just for love of the game. But now days, there is no love of the games, the players are just super greedy, its all about the money. Normally I wouldn’t be on the any corporate business owner’s side, but when there is only 9 teams are profitable in the league, the players want more money? After all, aren’t the players are still the employees?? Do we ever get to ask our boss to split their profit 50/50??

    On top of that, this is just slap on the faces of all us fans, who is average hard working citizen. Millions of us are either struggling to keep a job or finding a job, they are bickering about possible 2% difference on the royalties they would get on their piece of crap products, which is on top of their multi-million dollars contract?? Why should we support such greed?! I rather support the local school teams, or just play basketball with friends. The thought of them laughing at faces of the fans just make me sick! Boycott all NBA related events/products!!!

  24. themancarlos says:

    WOW so for 1% there will be no basketball, these people need a slap of reality and have their millions and billions taken away and see us (the fans) are going through and are able to raise a family in a 35k income a year lol these people are jokes it goes to show you that you dont need to be smart to become a billionaire or millionaire just you have to be born in it

  25. ayan khan says:

    first of all EID MABURAK YOW…and about the nba what can i say it will be verry shameful and disappointment if there is no NBA season…i wish the lock out can end already and get it over with but still to many damb problems..and i wish the nba would give us what we want that is NBA we want nba to start already and enough of this lockout please end it and give the people what they want please…nba shows lots of commercials that they care for people well if you really do care then show us that chu care by getting a deal done and start the nba…iam sorry its sad i appoligize for all the people that cant watch nba right now because for the stupid lockout..iam verry upset and i bet lots of other people is upset as well..:(

  26. TS says:

    If I want bologna, I’d much rather make a sammich, then read about why labor talks failed.

  27. bball says:

    Sick and tired of players getting paid too much. Owners should make the money they do, they own the team. I personally would like to see all the players lose out on this whole season. Maybe it will make them appreciate what they can make versuse how greedy they can be. I am a huge basketball fan, this year ill watch NCAA, and also hope they increase the age cap for the NBA another year. Let these greedy guys stay in school and get an actual education for a change.

  28. Gary says:

    That deal is stupid(49-51% potentially). When a company gives you a “potential” earning amount, they are ripping you off.
    Trust me, I accepted a job offer before that outlined 10-20% bonuses. When the time came to pay the company just said “we’re not doing well enough”.

  29. Jake777 says:

    Where does this BRI that these guys fight over come from? Oh yeah, THE FANS!!! Did you guys forget about us?

  30. Spaghetti says:

    STAY STRONG PLAYERS!!!!!!! Just go overseas and play you can still make money and that way you don’t have to deal with this stupid mess the owners caused. AND TO ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO THINK THE PLAYERS MAKE TOO MUCH MONEY: did you realize that the owners make more than the players???? Did that cross your mind? Besides that the players actually work. The owners just sit around…. The owners should accept the players 52.5% before the players decertify or just all give up and play overseas. I LOVE BASKETBALL. I HATE POLITICS. This is ridiculous.

    • jimbo999 says:

      hehe what a stupid comment. Owners just sitting around all day…? You must be 15 to think this way

  31. Eric Mayes says:

    You the owners and the players are rich big fat heads. Football is the number one sport in my book. They cared enough about their fans to quit the nonsense. The NBA has a commercial that says; the NBA cares, they care about money and themselves. That is what they care about.

  32. Eric Mayes says:

    I am a 40 year old male, Boston Celtic fan, who, thinks this CBA is rediculous. I make 10.00 an hour, and go through every game with the Celtics, and the other teams in the NBA. If they lock out the whole season, I will never watch the NBA again. They are fighting over a few percentage points, and it is rediculous. Step in my shoes, players or owners.

  33. Farrod says:


  34. Shakenbake says:

    I bet that NOTHING will prosper and NOTHING will be solved in this meeting

  35. Rashad Taylor says:


  36. Disgruntled Dave says:

    We as the fans need to get are point across, with out us there is no league and there is no big money for either side! They’re all so greedy they think that we’lll put up with what ever they dish out and we’ll come back begging for more and unfortunatly alot of fans will but I say stop buying there over priced crap, stop going to there over priced games and stop watching them on TV then pretty soon they’ll have no choice but to take less money! (just like the rest of us if the demand goes down so does the supply)

  37. mort50 says:

    Once L. James, C. Bosh, C. Anthony……and SOON C. Paul started planning, meeting and setting up cherry picked stacked teams designed to WIN numerous championships….MANY of the small market owners got the memo and the message. That was THAT their best TALENT could leave……and the end of their contract sign with Miami, LA or NY and they would NOT get a CENT for it. So…can you blame those owners for trying to make a profit. They can’t MAKE A PROFIT if their BEST PLAYERS leave for the BIG MONEY $$$ in LA and elsewhere.

  38. lets do it for the fans stop lockout

  39. Ronnie Ronquillo says:

    Fisher go retire and settle for 50/50…We don’t need you anymore..So many young players so retire

  40. David says:

    Maybe they play the ball very well, but players are not very smart. They have a chance to make a good deal, using this 2.5 BRI percent, to “sell” it to the owners in exchange of improvments in the system of the league, in the contracts or in everything they want, because players never will get the 2.5 and finally they will have to give up, so they could take advantage of the “anxiety” of the owners with the 50-50 to get some inmprovements and making this way, finally both sides will win. Owners, who are the ones who put the money, getting more money, and players, who are the one who work (and make more than enough money) to get some improvements in his working conditions.

  41. emmanuel says:

    end the lock today please.

  42. tareva says:

    lets have a fantasy draft or something ready to watch some basketball.

  43. aminder says:

    just start the season. owners dont be that stupid i visit this site everyday so please just start the season on Dec.1

  44. FIFA ROCKS says:

    just watch FOOTBALL/SOCCER.. no ignorant persons there, just the love for the game!!

    • Lanre says:

      Agreed 100%…fellow NBA fans, if you need a sport to watch before this shortened season begins, look no further than Major League Soccer. It’s got great fans, great players who care about the fans, high attendance rates, and so much more. Oh, and you can catch it on ESPN2 every week.

  45. DJ1234567890 says:

    What can I watch on TV other than the NBA?

  46. Mike says:

    NBA players are such morons. Do they not realise that the owners are business men? They’ll make money with or without the existence of the NBA. But without basketball the players are just idiots with a big shoe size.

  47. Rashad says:


  48. TS says:

    Right now on the weekends it’s easier to live without about basketball. We got NCAA and NFL football, NASCAR races, and of course The Walking Dead show on AMC Sunday night. But then there’s 5 rough days in between, with absolutely nothing on TV other then chicken scraps.

  49. We Dont care says:

    No one cares anymore

  50. Tal says:


    It will be short. Nothing will be accomplished.

    And both sides will be watching the Real game tonight..Alabama VS. LSU..

    As for Basketball..I beleive all we can hope for this year is March Madness…(Whose the next “Butler” this year?)
    NBA…Fuggit about it…LOL..

  51. JOANNE says:


  52. Justin says:


  53. Roby Baranovitch says:

    Two sides are going to crash the opportunity to have any deal, and the NBA is going to a dissaster.
    in such a war, there are not winners !!!
    The players are too griddy, and they better wake up, or it will be too late !!!

  54. Rick James says:

    Get a deal done please :/

  55. Anyone want to know how to solve this?

  56. Philljg says:

    Alright this is a critical point in the lockout. Players just think about it, the owners have budged a single bit since the lockout begin, i know it shouldnt be this way but you should just take the 50/50 split; be true to your fans and just end this lockout.

  57. shawn says:

    This is insane. The owners are being more greedy than the players ever have. Sure they may a ton of money but they already took a huge decrease and now the owners are to greeedy and want more. The owners are ruining the NBA. The dont care about the fans or the players or those who rely on these games for their income. The owners are unreasonable and the players are in thecomplete right in my opinion. If all of the owners were the people on the court playing, noone would go see them. Its the players who bring in the money and the players who deserve the extra 2 percent, that the greedy owners who arent good enough business men to make their team profitable are trying to find the easy way out by taking the money from the players. Using the players money to bail them out of trouble.

  58. Aditya says:


  59. read says:


  60. JustStartTheSeason says:


  61. please reach a deal today please

  62. Jako says:

    Are we surprised?
    Hey players. You want they should de-certify the NBA so you could go back to school or get a manual labor job? It’s time to capitulate and live to fight another day…although I hear European Basketball is fun to watch, too. Bye, bye NBA. Hello turkish hotels! ha ha ha

  63. LeBron James says:


  64. Knickfan212 says:

    These players need to accept the 50/50 split before it ends up less than that. The players are following Fisher and Hunter. Fisher is near retirement and although not getting his players salary he and Hunter are still getting their salaries for union work. I get that the players are the ones with the talent and should be paid but, I can see no other business where the workers get more of a profit than the owner of the company. They got over with the 57% in the last contract but now the owners are trying to remedy that bad decision they made in the last contract. IMO,50/50 is a sweet deal when there’s $4 billion to be split,but with all the missed games the $4 billion has gotten smaller.Soon when all players are into savings and have their back against the wall,the owners could go down to possibly47% and so on until it’s down to maybe 40% and the players will have to take it.

  65. Sports Fan says:

    Players Stand Strong

    • BOB says:

      you clearly don’t understand you idiot

      • Knickfan212 says:

        You’re the idiot! And what is it you say I don’t understand? If you’re gonna call people names you should explain why you feel that way. Maybe you’re the one that doesn’t understand. I have my degree, did you get your GED?

  66. CJ says:

    I can’t believe the NBA owners and players will be such an idiot to let that 2011-2012 regular season go away. Come on guys, think about it. After such a great season we just had. With the Miami heat big 3 story and that great NBA playoff was by far, the best thing the NBA could ever wish for. None of you guys are right, both of y’all are stupid and ignorant. Because of a freaking 4 billion revenue, you are going to cancel the entire 2011-2012 season. Stop being stupid and be smart.Look at the NFL, after their argument, they didn’t’ let any of their regular season cancel; you might ask why and the reason is cause They are not an Idiot as you guys. They think about the fans and the money they will make down the road.


  67. James Howell says:

    Please lets just try and make something work Owners/Players i dnt know about everyone i miss both sides and i knoe yall kinda sorta miss each other as well….. I WANT BASKETBALL!!! NBA not FIBA